Friday, November 14, 2014

I-594 And The Aftermath - Why Washington State And Who Might Be Next (Pt. 1)


We underestimate our enemies at our peril. The Washington State universal background check initiative, I-594, should have taught us that. We may think that Michael Bloomberg is a rich, power-mad little Napolean or, as Michael Bane calls him, a nastly little Fascist. However, he did not get to be rich by marrying the right woman or picking the right parents. No, he saw a need and devised a way to fulfill it. Along the way, this insight and his skills made him a very rich man. The bottom line is he is not stupid and he can think strategically.

Likewise, it is easy to dismiss Shannon Watts as an up-marrying, social climbing PR flack who attached herself to gun control as a  way to rejuvenate her ailing career. However, she didn't get to be a VP at Wellpoint without some degree of talent and a mastery of public relations tactics. We have seen that with the way she created the appearance of a win for gun control - even it if wasn't - from the announcements by companies like Starbucks and Chipotles that they didn't want guns in their stores. Perception is reality and the perception is that guns were banned there even if it was merely an unenforceable polite request to leave the guns at home.

Thus, when I read this post from Hyperion 1144 on Reddit, a light went off. The goal of Bloomberg wasn't universal background checks. It was to kill the gun culture in America by strangling its ability to bring new adults into it. We always say that taking someone shooting is a great way to inoculate them from the claims of the gun prohibitionists. If that is made too hard by the restrictions on transfers in I-594, then we can't achieve this inoculation.
I-594 is a not a tactical move by gun confiscationists, it is a strategic move.

This law was created by smart, wealthy, well-funded persons who are playing the long game, and if gun owners don’t start running a long-game strategy to match, we are done for within two generations. Washington has passed Initiative 594, a law marketed as requiring background checks on all sales, but which in reality has criminalized the act of touching any gun you do not own. This means that if you don’t own a gun in Washington State, it is now illegal for you to touch a gun.

I haven’t yet seen an article, comment, or post anywhere that takes into account the long-term cultural implications of such a regulation. I-594 is literally a legislative vaccine against the spread of gun culture.

How is someone curious about guns in Washington state supposed to learn about them about now? They won’t be able to go shooting with friends, they won’t be able to go to friends house to be shown how to field strip a 9mm. Gun classes have likely been outlawed. Gun rentals are likely gone now, too.

The only way to learn, now, is to buy a gun and learn by yourself, completely on your own. No one can help you, since they can’t touch your gun and you can’t touch any of theirs. This law is intended to isolate us, to prevent us from spreading ideas, knowledge, information, culture. This law, played out of over years and decades, means that gun owners are now likely limited to two pools of people in the future:

1) The children of gun owning families.
2) The rare, entirely self-motivated individual who is willing to trek into an unknown world completely alone.

Played over years and decades, this is how you slowly disarm a population without getting substantial complaints from that population.

The only way we maintain our 2nd Amendment rights is to fight for them. The only people who will fight for them are people who understand firearms, and the reasons for owning them, well enough to be willing to fight. The only way most people come to an understanding of this is if someone else taught them or helped them to understand.

Now, virtually all non-familial acts of teaching and culture-sharing are illegal. In the long-term cultural sense, I-594 is the single most dangerous piece of gun control legislation ever conceived.

It makes the NFA and the Clinton Assault Weapon Ban look childishly simplistic by comparison. This time, they didn’t ban certain mechanical or cosmetic features. They didn’t ban full-auto or select fire or short-barrel rifles.

This time, they banned a culture, our culture.

If this stands or spreads, we are done for.
I think the author, Hyperion 1144, makes a lot of sense and we need to get that message across to all gun owners - Fudds, Threepers, Prags, or what other subgroup of gun owners you can think of.

As to the last sentence in the Reddit post, it has spread to the state of Nevada. This was not unexpected as a universal background check bill passed the Nevada legislature last year but was vetoed by Gov. Brian Sandoval (R-NV). Everytown President John Feinblatt said as much after I-594 passed calling it just the beginning. The group fought off an attempt by the Nevada Firearms Coalition to keep it off the 2016 ballot. The only change made to the wording of the ballot initiative was make sure voters knew the penalties for violations would be a gross misdemeanor for first offenses and a felony conviction for the second offense. This is identical to Washington State's I-594.

Sebastian has some ideas on how to fight off Bloomberg on the ballot initiatives. I haven't digested all of it yet but it sure has set off a storm of comments.

David Codrea notes that the effort in Nevada was something he warned about last year. Back then, David did some investigative digging into the Nevada effort and found the fingerprints of Bloomberg all over it. Unfortunately, not enough people listened at the time.

Part 2 of this post will be an effort to identify future targets of Bloomberg's opportunism.

81 comments:

  1. "they won’t be able to go shooting with friends, they won’t be able to go to friends house to be shown how to field strip a 9mm. Gun classes have likely been outlawed. Gun rentals are likely gone now, too."

    "criminalized the act of touching any gun you do not own"

    This is exactly the kind of hyperbole people do not believe. Even I do not believe it. The law exempts transfers between family members, and exempts temporary transfers at shooting ranges and organized competitions: " The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; (ii ) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range
    authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located; (iii) if the temporary transfer occurs and the
    transferee's possession of the firearm is exclusively at a lawful organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or while participating
    in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance; (iv) to a person who
    is under eighteen years of age for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes while under the direct supervision and
    control of a responsible adult who is not prohibited from possessing firearms; "

    And, what happens at your house is most likely to stay at your house, unless you happen to have invited law enforcement over.

    As long as we rely on hyperbole and silly worst-case "Confiscation!" arguments, we will continue to fail to beat down these initiatives. Gun rentals and shooting classes have not been outlawed. Showing your kids how to hunt has not been outlawed. Getting your gun fixed has not been outlawed. Even worse, when a law comes up that *does* do these things, people will remember the last wolf cry and believe it a little less.

    Laws like this get passed the ballot precisely because they just don't affect that many people, and people generally do not believe the rhetoric (on either side). Defeating them requires a whole new strategy, not recycling bullet points about registration=confiscation from the 80s.

    It will come down to how its enforced - whether people relate to those charged (or those charged are drug dealers). And, how much money it ends up costing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "(ii ) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range"

      Well, and this only applies if the gun is always kept at the range. So, you will not be able to bring a friend to a range and let him shoot your gun. Nor will you be able to take him shooting outdoors. That's what the law says - no one is exaggerating.

      Delete
    2. dwb,

      So many things wrong with your analysis.

      1) family members are only exempted if it is your spouse or domestic partner, or if the family member is under 18 and going hunting and the hunter is with an adult. You can not loan your 19 year old daughter a firearm for any purpose at all.

      2) As anon pointed out the firearm has to be kept at all times at the range.

      2a) You can't loan your friend a gun to shoot at the back of your or anyone else's property since that is not an authorized range. No more turkey shoots where you try out friend's guns.

      2b) You can't loan your gun to a friend up at the gravel pit since it isn't an authorized shooting range.

      2c) Nope. You have to buy a membership, pay range fees, and then keep your gun at the range. Unfortunately none of the ranges in my county have provisions to keep guns at the range which means that you can't loan a gun to someone at the range.

      2d) Oh, and gun safety classes are, in fact, outlawed, unless they are put on by the operators of an authorized shooting range. Otherwise there would be no legal guns to learn to shoot with

      3) You can't hand your firearm to a hunting guide while out hunting unless the guide has a permit to hunt. Often they don't as that is not why they are out there.

      4) You can't hand your firearm to a designated official at a courthouse as required by Washington state law if they don't have a lock-box.

      5) You can't drop your gun off at a gunsmith unless he has an FFL, otherwise you can't get it back, contrary to what you stated.

      I don't know where you get this idea that any of these are hyperbole. They are in the plain language text of the bill, there for anyone to read who takes the time. You even quoted some of them in your post. Either you are ignoring the plain language of the initiative or you are dissembling.

      How they are enforced is irrelevant. They are written into law and are there for any anti-gun sheriff or police chief to enforce as he or she sees fit. Since the average person is generally law abiding, they will generally follow the law, regardless of the lack of enforcement. That's what makes most people generally law abiding.

      As posted above, this will scare many prospective gun owners away. If the only ways to learn to shoot are to either buy a gun or break the law, they will do neither.

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  2. "Established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located" - Think about that language. Many ranges are not "authorized". Many ranges are not "established". Even though a range may be "established" it could lie outside the jurisdiction of a governing body. For example, if I go to a range outside the city limits, more than likely the county doesn't have zoning. No zoning, no "authorization".

    ReplyDelete
  3. Yes, dwb, how it is enforced... We shall see how the laws in Connecticut are enforced as well. However, ultimately it is an infringement! It is a form of flypaper laws. Laws that are designed to get people "stuck" on some minor arbitrary issue and criminalize and demonize gun ownership. Laws that are designed to proscribe more people and types of guns from common ownership, for the common good and safety of society, don't you know. Common sense indeed.

    Our country is a republic designed to protect the rights of the individual, regardless of the thoughts and desires of the officials or the current popular sentiment. When they talk of "compromise", remember, we already have compromised; in 1934 (NFA), 1968 (GCA), and 1986 (FOPA). They never compromise. They never propose repealing the Hughes amendment as unconstitutional, consider concealed permits valid in all states like drivers licenses, changing the date of "antiques" to ANY gun 100 years or older. Nope, they just keep chipping away, a little here, a little there, this won't affect many, this won't limit much..... B.S. Enough!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Most people cannot relate to hypothetical, legalistic, arguments. In urban areas, it is highly unlikely people are renting a gun or shooting at a range not "authorized" by zoning and permits. In rural areas, people shoot on their own property (and most likely voting against this in large #s anyway). To win, you need real, direct, concrete examples.

    Honestly, I think a lot of this is because we (gun right's community) have been playing one-dimensional chess for so long against pure prohibitionists, we have become bad at making appropriate sacrifices and thinking outside the box. And, because it has become too associated with conservative republicans. We have conceded that minorities are not interested in being full citizens with gun rights.

    In my mind, the way you beat back background checks is not by opposing this or that initiative like I-594. It's by de-fanging laws where you lose your gun rights (like non-violent drug offenses, or immigration violations). It may require the unthinkable: partnering and cultivating strong pro-2A democrats in urban areas.




    ReplyDelete
  5. @Dubs
    Yes, Dubs, when they talk of compromise they never have. However, a smart opponent turns strengths into weaknesses. Bloomberg did not get to be worth 30 billion and 3x mayor of NYC by being a wall flower.

    The trouble IMO with these ballot initiatives and why they are so effective is precisely because they neutralize the ability of the NRA and others to play realpolitik, and because they turn an uncompromising attitude into a weakness. To the vast majority of people, keeping guns out of the hand of criminals sounds reasonable, and also the vast majority of people need a background check for a job. Gun owners have guns. They do not see this law as an impediment. The scary scenarios about gun classes vanishing and criminalizing touching guns has not materialized.

    People in WA wake up and the world is mostly the same as it was in Oct. Now, the rhetoric will be believed a little less when it comes up in NV.

    This was not defeated based on arguments about the initiative itself. Chances are pretty good, these won't be defeated in NV or elsewhere. Then when the scary scenarios fail to materialize they will introduce more. This was a smart play by Bloomberg. But it also means we need to up our game. We need to stop thinking these ballot initiatives can be defeated on their face, and look for other ways to de-fang them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It wasn't defeated based on arguments about the initiative itself because most people never heard an argument against the initiative. That's the difference between $5 million for and about $350 thousand against. I think it would have been defeated had more people taken this one seriously. There are serious flaws in the language of this initiative (read my post above) and hopefully in about two years we will have a Governor and a legislature who will be pro-firearm enough to gut this travesty (that's how long it takes in Washington before they can repeal initiatives by legislation).

      Delete
    2. People who lose blame money. People who win attribute the message.

      The evidence is that while there was some initial confusion about the ballot measures (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/background-checks-for-gun-sales-look-likely-to-pass-in-washington/), people sorted it out.


      I have read your analysis and also the text of the bill. The law specifically exempts "A transfer between immediate family members, which for this subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents, children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;"

      So in your example 1 maybe I cannot "loan" my 19 yr old daughter a rifle, but I can give it to her. Also, I just checked, and there are 2 pages of NRA pistol and rifle classes offered in WA through may 2015, so no, gun safety classes have not been outlawed. The rest of your examples, like shooting in a gravel pit, most people (esp in urban areas) will not relate to. Unless you invite law enforcement on your property, I doubt this is enforceable anyway.



      @anonymous: No, you are reading it wrong (that comma is important!). It means that the transfer has to entirely stay at the shooting range.

      Look, I am a reasonable guy. When the Brady campaign shouts "Blood in the Streets!" nobody listens anymore. When we come up with Chicken little scenarios about these initiatives that do not come to pass (like gun safety classes being outlawed), no one will listen to us either.

      In some way, I wish you were actually right about gun safety classes being outlawed, because that would get this law struck down pretty fast.

      Delete
    3. dwb wrote: "The scary scenarios about gun classes vanishing and criminalizing touching guns has not materialized."

      That's because the law hasn't yet taken effect. Give it some time and the right ambitious anti-gun prosecutor.

      Delete
    4. @dwb OK, so your interpretation of "(ii ) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range" is that the gun must be returned to the owner before the two pals leave the range, not that they have to rent a gun kept at the range.

      And then, despite the fact that there are separate sections for unspecified "transfers" between spouses, but other close relations (children, etc) are only mentioned in connection with "bona fide gift" type of transfers, your interpretation is that if you can give your daughter a gun as a gift, it means you can also give it to her as a temporary loan.

      I don't know. It could be that what you say is what the authors of the initiative meant, but then they must have had utter incompetents write the law, since its meaning doesn't have to be so ambiguous that two different people would read different things into its provisions. The text of the Nevada initiative is actually considerably clearer on these points, so it can be done.

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  6. Fortunately they won't be able to pull that crap here in South Carolina. As I understand the law, residents of South Carolina cannot put anything on the ballot

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Geoffry - You are correct. There are only 4 states east of the Mississippi with ballot initiatives - Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, and Ohio. It is much more of a western thing.

      Delete
  7. DWB, At least we can have a reasonable discussion. That is something.

    A couple points on what you said most recently.

    You say those who lose blame money. Demonstrable fact that the "yes" campaign had $5 million to spend and that their ads were full of falsehoods and half truths. There was no rebuttal as there was no money to rebut.

    You linked to fivethirtyeight.com and claimed that people had figured out the confusion on the ballot measures. I read their article and all it talks about is support for increased background checks. It does not mention any of the side issues buried in the text of the initiative or how people thought about them.

    You claim that the comma somehow means that transfer and storage are two completely separate items, only one of which has to be true. This is not a correct reading of the sentence. Ask an English teacher. The law says (comma or no comma) that the gun involved in the transfer has to stay at the range. May be stupid wording, but that's what it says.

    I am not saying that this initiative is the end of the world or nearly as bad as some of the laws that have passed in various places. What I am saying is that this initiative is designed to and will have the effect of, making it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns, while having no effect on crime at all. Will anyone be prosecuted under the vague statutes? I'd be willing to put money on it. All it takes is one politically motivated prosecutor. After all, it wasn't so long ago that the City of Seattle was arresting people in Seattle city parks who were fully compliant with state law. They knew their law was illegal, they knew the arrests were illegal, they did them anyway. Little solace to the victims of Seattle's crimes that the arrests got thrown out, after you've been arrested and had to deal with that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To add to your reply to dwb, regarding the meaning of some of the provisions of I-594, here is a link to David Kopel's analysis:

      https://www.voteno594.com/blog-posts/how-michael-bloomberg-is-twisting-the-gun-control-debate-in-the-evergreen-state-washing-con/

      He is quite an authority on the subject of firearms legislation, so his analysis of the text of I-594 is not to be be dismissed lightly.

      Delete
    2. "this initiative is designed to and will have the effect of, making it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns, while having no effect on crime at all." Yes, I agree with that. And, hand Bloomberg an easy political victory.

      I hope you see the the problem here. I consider myself pretty staunchly pro-2A, but even I do not find these arguments particularly persuasive. I am not confused, and I have read Kopel's piece. There are lots of reasons to oppose the law, these chicken little scenarios are not it. I predict: Nothing changes in WA.

      The real problem here is that the pro-2A community is talking to each other and not listening to people outside. Bubbles are dangerous.

      What would really be interesting to know is how many gun owners voted for I-594 (I suspect many more than you think)- what that tells tells you is not that people are confused, it tells you they *do not care* and they don't think the law will affect them.

      How do you oppose a law that everyone thinks will apply to someone else (the minimum wage laws are like this too)?

      You know, back in the day, the NRA used to talk more about taxes. registration=taxation. Maybe instead of these chicken little scenarios, we should argue that they are yet another vehicle to raise taxes. See, that might get peoples attention.





      Delete
    3. "There are lots of reasons to oppose the law, these chicken little scenarios are not it. I predict: Nothing changes in WA. ... Maybe instead of these chicken little scenarios, we should argue that they are yet another vehicle to raise taxes. See, that might get peoples attention."

      Most voters aren't going to care that someone has to pay $50 or whatever while selling his gun. Nor will most care that the waiting period to buy a handgun was bumped up from 5 to 10 days (except for those with a carry permit). It's precisely the "chicken little" scenarios that matter the most in the long run. Since the I-594 proponents claimed all along that those were imaginary scenarios, if asked, they might well support a legislative fix to the new law to explicitly decriminalize these scenarios. Going to the legislature right away may well be the most sound route to take at this point, probably a more sound one that going to the courts.

      Delete
    4. P.S. Well, registration eventually enabling confiscation is the biggest reason to object to I-594, but how many voters nowadays will be convinced by this argument? Otherwise, if not the "chicken little" scenarios, what are the reasons for opposing I-594?

      Delete

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  8. Exhibit 1 for the defense (chicken little, according to some:

    the Lynden Pioneer Museum has opted to pull eleven loaned WWII rifles currently on display and return these firearms to their collector owners before the “transfer” requirement in I-594 takes effect next month. The reason? The law contains no exemptions for firearms loaned for museum displays, or loaned for similar educational or cultural institution study or uses. Once the law takes effect, the firearms could not be returned to their owners without the mandatory background checks and all the logistics and expenses that entails.

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    private foundations at very low interest rate, without advance payment. For more information contact us via Email:aspirefinanceloanltd@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hello Everybody, My name is.Mrs.Patrizia Borelli. I live in italy and i am a happy woman today? and i told my self that any lender that rescue my family from our poor situation, i will refer any person that is looking for loan to him, he gave me happiness to me and my family, i was in need of a loan of $ 54,000.00 to start my life all over as i am a single mother with 3 kids I met this honest and GOD fearing man loan lender that help me with a loan of $ 54,000.00 U S Dollar, he is a GOD fearing man, if you are in need of loan and you will pay back the loan please contact him tell him that is Mrs.Patrizia Borelli that refer you to him. Contact Mr. Ben Williams via email: reply to email (skycreditfinancialaids@gmail.com)

    LOAN APPLICATION FORM:
    =================
    Full Name:................
    Loan Amount Needed:.
    Purpose of loan:.......
    Loan Duration:..
    Gender:.............
    Marital status:....
    Location:..........
    Home Address:..
    City:............
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    Occupation:......
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    With Regard,
    Mr. Ben William

    ReplyDelete
  38. HOW I GOT MY LOAN FROM DR KELLY WILLIAMS LOAN FINANCE

    My Brothers and Sister all over the world, I am Mrs.Irene Query Wheat from philippines ;i was in need of loan some months ago. i needed a loan to open my restaurant and bar, when one of my long time business partner introduce me to this good and trustful loan lender DR KELLY WILLIAMS that help me out with a loan, and is interest rate is very low , thank God today. I am now a successful business Woman, and I became useful. In the life of others, I now hold a restaurant and bar. And about 30 workers, thank GOD for my life I am leaving well today a happy father with three kids, thanks to you DR KELLY WILLIAMS Now I can take care of my lovely family, i can now pay my bill. I am now the bread winner of my family. If you are look for a trustful and reliable loan leader. You can Email him via,mail (financialgoodnews22@hotmail.com) Please tell him Mrs Irene Query Wheat from philippines introduce you to him. THANKS


    LOAN APPLICATION FORM:
    First Name:
    Last Name:
    Next Of Kin:
    Date Of Birth:
    Marital Status:
    Address:
    Sex:
    Phone No:
    City:
    Zip Code:
    State:
    Country:
    Nationality:
    Weekly income:
    Occupation:
    Monthly Income:
    Amount Needed:
    Duration:
    Date of loan needed:
    Purpose of the loan:
    E-mail address:

    Regards.
    Managements
    DR KELLY WILLIAMS Lenders Finance Limited

    Contact Us At :financialgoodnews22@hotmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  39. HOW I GOT MY LOAN FROM DR KELLY WILLIAMS LOAN FINANCE

    My Brothers and Sister all over the world, I am Mrs.Irene Query Wheat from philippines ;i was in need of loan some months ago. i needed a loan to open my restaurant and bar, when one of my long time business partner introduce me to this good and trustful loan lender DR KELLY WILLIAMS that help me out with a loan, and is interest rate is very low , thank God today. I am now a successful business Woman, and I became useful. In the life of others, I now hold a restaurant and bar. And about 30 workers, thank GOD for my life I am leaving well today a happy father with three kids, thanks to you DR KELLY WILLIAMS Now I can take care of my lovely family, i can now pay my bill. I am now the bread winner of my family. If you are look for a trustful and reliable loan leader. You can Email him via,mail (financialgoodnews22@hotmail.com) Please tell him Mrs Irene Query Wheat from philippines introduce you to him. THANKS


    LOAN APPLICATION FORM:
    First Name:
    Last Name:
    Next Of Kin:
    Date Of Birth:
    Marital Status:
    Address:
    Sex:
    Phone No:
    City:
    Zip Code:
    State:
    Country:
    Nationality:
    Weekly income:
    Occupation:
    Monthly Income:
    Amount Needed:
    Duration:
    Date of loan needed:
    Purpose of the loan:
    E-mail address:

    Regards.
    Managements
    DR KELLY WILLIAMS Lenders Finance Limited

    Contact Us At :financialgoodnews22@hotmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  40. Welcome To George Clydesdale Loan Service….

    Are you a business man or woman? Are you in any financial mess or do you need funds to start up your own business? Do you need a loan to start a nice Small Scale and medium business? Do you have a low credit score and you are finding it hard to obtain capital loan from local banks and other financial institutes?.

    Our loans Are well insured for maximum security is our priority, Our leading goal is to help you get the service you deserve, Our program is the quickest way to get what you need in a snap. Reduce your payments to ease the strain on your monthly expenses. Gain flexibility with which you can use for any purpose – from vacations, to education, to unique purchases

    We offer a wide range of financial services which includes: Business Planning, Commercial and Development Finance, Properties and Mortgages, Debt Consolidation Loans, Business Loans, Private loans, Home Refinancing Loans with low interest rate @3% per annum for individuals, companies and corporate bodies. Get the best for your family and own your dream home as well with our General Loan scheme.

    Interested applicants should Contact us via email: {clydesdaleloancompany@yahoo.com or clydesdaleloancooperation@hotmail.com} or Tel: (347) 708-8926

    So we await to hear from you soon.
    Thanks for your cooperation
    George Clydesdale...

    ReplyDelete
  41. Best Place To Get Your Financial Problem Solved (Lexieloanfinance@gmail.com)

    My Name is Nicole Marie, I live in USA and life is worth living comfortably for me and my family now and i really have never seen goodness shown to me this much in my life, As i am a struggling mum with two kids and i have been going through a serious problem as my husband encountered a terrible accident last two weeks, and the doctors states that he needs to undergo a delicate surgery for him to be able to walk again and i could not afford the bill for his surgery then i went to the bank for a loan and they turn me down stating that i have no credit card, from there i ran to my father and he was not able to help me, then when i was browsing through yahoo answers and i came across a God fearing man (Mr Martinez Lexie) who provides loans at an affordable interest rate and i have been hearing about so many scams on the Internet mostly Africa, but at this my desperate situation, i had no choice than to give it an attempt due to the fact that the company is from United State of America, and surprisingly it was all like a dream, i received a loan of $82,000.00 USD and i payed for my husband surgery and thank GOD today he is ok and can walk, my family is happy and i said to myself that i will shout to the world the wonders this great and God fearing Man Mr Martinez Lexie did for me and my family; so if anyone is in genuine and serious need of a loan do contact this GOD fearing man via Email: ( Lexieloanfinance@gmail.com ) or reach him through this number +1 (406) 946-0675 thanks

    ReplyDelete

  42. Hello everybody, I am Virginia ,currently living in INLAND,I am a married man at the moment with two kids and i was stuck in a financial situation by august 2012 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills for my son medication. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success,and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, i was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender by a friend named Mr. James and i got a loan sum of 10,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment. So dear,if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan with low interest rate of 2% and better repayment plans and schedule,please contact Mrs Omi Jame he doesn’t know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about her,he offers all kinds of loans to both individuals and company and also i want God to bless him more. You can contact his company through this email omijame567@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  43. Welcome To George Clydesdale Loan Service….

    Are you a business man or woman? Are you in any financial mess or do you need funds to start up your own business? Do you need a loan to start a nice Small Scale and medium business? Do you have a low credit score and you are finding it hard to obtain capital loan from local banks and other financial institutes?.

    Our loans Are well insured for maximum security is our priority, Our leading goal is to help you get the service you deserve, Our program is the quickest way to get what you need in a snap. Reduce your payments to ease the strain on your monthly expenses. Gain flexibility with which you can use for any purpose – from vacations, to education, to unique purchases

    We offer a wide range of financial services which includes: Business Planning, Commercial and Development Finance, Properties and Mortgages, Debt Consolidation Loans, Business Loans, Private loans, Home Refinancing Loans with low interest rate @3% per annul for individuals, companies and corporate bodies. Get the best for your family and own your dream home as well with our General Loan scheme.

    Interested applicants should Contact us via email: {clydesdaleloancompany@yahoo.com or clydesdaleloancooperation@hotmail.com} or Tel: +1(347) 708-8926

    So we await to hear from you soon.
    Thanks for your cooperation
    George Clydesdale ...

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hello, Do you need finance to consolidate your debt? Do you need funding to help your company get back on track? So I have the best solution for you. If your new business is like most startups, you're seeking loan somewhere between $5,000 and $5,000,000.00 million to get it off the ground. After exhausting your personal savings and loans from relatives and friends, your first instinct might be to get a bank loan or an SBA loan. Before you act on this instinct, let me tell you about this loan firm i got a loan from same day. Wiley Knight Loan Company is the right place to be, i got a business loan of $350,000.00 from this firm after been scammed of $1,790.00. But today i am a business owner and my business is fast growing,if you need any type of loan today do not fail to contact this firm because this is the right place to be when seeking for loan help, their interest rate is very low (2%) contact this firm today for your loans through email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com and you will be glad you did. Email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com Thanks..

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hello, Do you need finance to consolidate your debt? Do you need funding to help your company get back on track? So I have the best solution for you. If your new business is like most startups, you're seeking loan somewhere between $5,000 and $5,000,000.00 million to get it off the ground. After exhausting your personal savings and loans from relatives and friends, your first instinct might be to get a bank loan or an SBA loan. Before you act on this instinct, let me tell you about this loan firm i got a loan from same day. Wiley Knight Loan Company is the right place to be, i got a business loan of $350,000.00 from this firm after been scammed of $1,790.00. But today i am a business owner and my business is fast growing,if you need any type of loan today do not fail to contact this firm because this is the right place to be when seeking for loan help, their interest rate is very low (2%) contact this firm today for your loans through email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com and you will be glad you did. Email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hello, Do you need finance to consolidate your debt? Do you need funding to help your company get back on track? So I have the best solution for you. If your new business is like most startups, you're seeking loan somewhere between $5,000 and $5,000,000.00 million to get it off the ground. After exhausting your personal savings and loans from relatives and friends, your first instinct might be to get a bank loan or an SBA loan. Before you act on this instinct, let me tell you about this loan firm i got a loan from same day. Wiley Knight Loan Company is the right place to be, i got a business loan of $350,000.00 from this firm after been scammed of $1,790.00. But today i am a business owner and my business is fast growing,if you need any type of loan today do not fail to contact this firm because this is the right place to be when seeking for loan help, their interest rate is very low (2%) contact this firm today for your loans through email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com and you will be glad you did. Email wileyknightloancompany@gmail.com Thanks..

    ReplyDelete
  47. Do you need an urgent loan ? we offer worldwide loan to interested borrowers who in need of the business opportunity loan at 2% rate. apply now and email us now at: Email :ingridkloetloanfirm@gmail.com

    LOAN APPLICATION FORM
    1) Full Name:
    2) Gender:
    3) Loan Amount Needed:.
    4) Loan Duration:
    5) Country:
    6) Home Address:
    7) Mobile Number:
    8)Monthly Income:
    9)Occupation:
    )Have you apply before?.

    Best Regards.

    ReplyDelete
  48. My name is zunna, I am from New york, United State, am here to testify of how i got my loan from Mrs Ingrid {ingridkloetloanfirm@gmail.com} after i applied Two times from various loan lenders who claimed to be lenders right in this forum,i thought their lending where real and i applied but they never gave me loan. I was in need of an urgent loan to start a business and i applied from various loan lenders who promised to help but they never gave me the loan.Until a friend of mine introduce me to Mrs Ingrid kloet the C.E.O of INGRID Loan Company who promised to help me with a loan of my desire and he really did as he promised without any form of delay, I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders until i met Mrs Ingrid, who really helped me with my loan and changed my life for better. I dont know if you are in need of an urgent loan, free feel to contact Ingrid loan company on email{ ingridkloetloanfirm@gmail.com} for help

    ReplyDelete
  49. How I Was Rescued By A God Fearing Lender (Lexieloancompany@yahoo.com)

    Hello, I am Andrew Thompson currently living in CT USA, God has bless me with two kids and a lovely Wife, I promise to share this Testimony because of God favor in my life, 2days ago I was in desperate need of money so I thought of having a loan then I ran into wrong hands who claimed to be loan lender not knowing he was a scam. he collected 1,500.00 USD from me and refuse to email me since then I was confuse, but God came to my rescue, one faithful day I went to church after the service I share idea with a friend and she introduce me to LEXIE LOAN COMPANY, she said she was given 98,000.00 USD by MR LEXIE , THE MANAGING DIRECTOR OF LEXIE LOAN COMPANY. So I collected his email Address , he told me the rules and regulation and I followed, then after processing of the Documents, he gave me my loan of 55,000.00 USD... So if you are interested in a loan you can as well contact him on this Email: lexieloancompany@yahoo.com or text +1(406) 946-0675 thanks, I am sure he will also help you.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Do not use all of these Private Money Lender here, there are not legitimate and if they have a free email account tag i.e. yahoo, gmail, hotmail, live etc then they are not legitimate. If they have telephone number with international dialing codes from Nigeria, India, UK, Singapore and France then you have to beware. A legitimate company would have a genuine website, personalized email address/account and based in the country they claim they are. I would recommend anyone looking a legitmate/trusted project and bsuienss loan lender to visit: WILLIAM BURKE LENDINGS LOCATED IN NEW YORK CITY, NY, USA as their reputation speaks louder than others in the industry when it come to obtaining all kinds of loans, mortgage, debt consolidation, debt financing, unsecured business loans, equipment loans, contruction loans, farm loans and Real Estate Loans. Their full website information and contact details are Tel No: +1 (646)-513-4428, Website: www.wburke-lendings.com or Email: finance@wburke-lendings.com located in New York City, New York. USA. Skype: wburke-lendings

    ReplyDelete
  51. Hello everyone,
    My name is Mrs Melisa Johnson and i am talking as the happiest person in the whole wide world today and i told my self that any lender that rescue my family from our poor situation, i will tell the name to the whole wild world and i am so happy to say that my family is back for good because i was in need a loan of $ 55,000 USD to start my life all over as i am a single mum with 2kids and the whole world seemed like it was hanging on me until i met the GOD sent loan lender that changed my life and that of my family, a GOD fearing lender, Mrs Mary Clark, She was the Savior GOD sent to rescue my family and at first i thought it was not going to be possible until i received my loan of $ 55,000 USD , i will advise any one who is in genuine need of a loan to contact Mrs Mrs Mary Clark,via email at:maryclarkservice1@yahoo.com because She is the most understanding and kind hearten lender.

    Melisa Johnson

    Testimony on how i got my loan

    ReplyDelete
  52. Get BLANK ATM Programmed Card and cash money directly in any ATM Machine around you. There is no risk of being caught, because the card has been programmed in such a way that it's not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you. Now email us today at our E-mail address at: blankedatmcardmachine@outlook.com for you to get your own Programmed Card today.

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  53. Hello Every One,

    My Name is Mrs Barbara Arnold, i live in USA and life is worth living comfortably for me and my family now and i really have never seen goodness shown to me this much in my life as i am a struggling mum with three kids and i have been going through a serious problem as my husband encountered a terrible accident last two weeks, and the doctors states that he needs to undergo a delicate surgery for him to be able to walk again and i could not afford the bill for his surgery then i went to the bank for a loan and they turn me down stating that i have no credit card, from there i run to my father and he was not able to help, then when i was browsing through yahoo answers and i came across a loan lender Mr John Hawkins who provides loans at an affordable interest rate and i have been hearing about so many scams on the Internet but at this my desperate situation, i had no choice than to give it an attempt and surprisingly it was all like a dream, i received a loan of $35,000 USD and i payed for my husband surgery and thank GOD today he is okay and can walk and is working and the burden is longer so much on me any more and we can feed well and my family is happy today and i said to my self that i will shout aloud to the world of the wonders of GOD to me through this GOD fearing lender Mr John Hawkins and i will advise anyone in genuine and serious need of loan to contact this GOD fearing man Email him: johnhawkinsloans@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  54. Get BLANK ATM Programmed Card and cash money directly in any ATM Machine around you. There is no risk of being caught, because the card has been programmed in such a way that it's not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you and you can only withdraw a total amount of $5,000.00 USD in a day. Now email us today at our E-mail address at: Atmcardcashmachine@hotmail.com and get your card today and live that luxury life you every dream to live.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Get BLANK ATM Programmed Card and cash money directly in any ATM Machine around you. There is no risk of being caught, because the card has been programmed in such a way that it's not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you and you can only withdraw a total amount of $5,000.00 USD in a day. Now email us today at our E-mail address at: Atmcardcashmachine@hotmail.com and get your card today and live that luxury life you every dream to live.forver

    ReplyDelete
  56. I am from New york, United State, am here to testify of how i got my loan from Mrs Ingrid {ingridkloetloanfirm@gmail.com} after i applied Two times from various loan lenders who claimed to be lenders right in this forum,i thought their lending where real and i applied but they never gave me loan. I was in need of an urgent loan to start a business and i applied from various loan lenders who promised to help but they never gave me the loan.Until a friend of mine introduce me to Mrs Ingrid kloet the C.E.O of INGRID Loan Company who promised to help me with a loan of my desire and he really did as he promised without any form of delay, I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders until i met Mrs Ingrid, who really helped me with my loan and changed my life for better. I dont know if you are in need of an urgent loan, free feel to contact Ingrid loan company on email{ ingridkloetloanfirm@gmail.com} for help

    ReplyDelete