The Pincus Deposition - Video Excerpt

As was mentioned in yesterday's post on the Rob Pincus' deposition in the NRA v Ackerman McQueen case, it was explicitly acknowledged that Rob was not properly served and that he appeared voluntarily. In the video below you can hear the objections of the attorneys for AckMac to the deposition including the fact that it was delivered to a location in New Jersey where he had not lived for years. You will also hear the fact that Rob explicitly acknowledges he is appearing voluntarily when asked by the attorney from the Brewer firm Michael Collins.





Thanks to Rob for providing this video excerpt of the deposition.

UPDATE: Rob has released a second video excerpt of his deposition. In the video below, he explains how he first came across the documents that purportedly were "leaked". It was on Facebook on a page where he didn't even know who managed the page. You can't get any more public domain than that!





Save the Second has a long post on their website with more details on how Rob spent Friday.

The Pincus Deposition

Earlier in June, it was revealed that a number of people had been subpoenaed in the NRA's lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen. While most of those who received a subpoena were NRA Board of Director members, trainer and activist Rob Pincus was also served. Ostensibly, the subpoenas were to find out who leaked information such as the bills from Ackerman McQueen regarding Wayne LaPierre's clothing purchases, Oliver North and Richard Childress' letter regarding outside counsel William Brewer III, and other such information.

Yesterday, Rob gave his deposition in the case to attorneys representing both the NRA and Ackerman McQueen.

He noted this on Facebook about his testimony in the deposition yesterday.

As I’ve said many times, I wasn’t involved in any “leaks” and I don’t know who was. Now that is part of the court record... officially. After consider time, effort and expense.

The NRA sent a team of lawyers from VA & TX and hired a local videographer and court reporter. They sent them to one of the most remote locations in the Continental US and rented the town hall for the proceedings. I walked over with my daughter and she hung out with the local pre-schoolers and a friend while the deposition took place.

I had offered to provide the documents that revealed pretty clearly when I first encountered the (already public) documents and save everyone a lot of time and money. The NRA Attorney’s wanted to do this today. Ackerman’s attorneys attended via phone line and video feed.

The location was Silverton, population 630, which is the county seat of San Juan County, Colorado. In other words, it was a long way from the big city. Or even any city.

Rob was gracious enough this morning to spend 20 minutes on the phone with me providing an after-action report. We discussed a number of things in the conversation including the why of the subpoena, what he thought they were trying to find, the cost to him, the monetary costs incurred by the NRA 's lawyers, and more.

The deposition took five hours, two attorneys for the NRA, a court reporter who had to travel from Denver, a videographer from Durango, and an expensive video conference hook-up so that the Ackerman McQueen attorneys could participate. Rob estimated that the costs ran upwards of $20,000 before you begin to figure in the attorneys' billable hours. It was also very needless as Rob had made a good faith offer to provide all documentation and a sworn statement on what he knew. This offer was rejected by the lawyers representing the NRA.

As Rob travels often, the date could have been adjusted so that the deposition could have taken place in a more convenient and more cost effective location for the NRA and AckMac. The attorneys for AckMac noted in the meeting for the deposition that there was no reason to rush the process as it was early in discovery and no trial date had been set. Nonetheless, the lawyers for the NRA were insistent that the deposition be taken on June 28th as it appears they were more interested in speed. Rob believes that they were more interested in finding "the leak" than they were in the case itself.

The attorneys for the NRA, Robert Cox of Briglia Hundley and Michael J. Collins of Brewer Attorneys, admitted that Rob had not been properly served with the subpoena. As such, he appeared voluntarily at this deposition. In his opinion, the subpoena itself was an abuse of the discovery process meant as a fishing expedition and was meant to intimidate Rob as he has been a vocal critic of Wayne and the "Old Guard".

I asked Rob about the costs to him both financially and emotionally. The financial costs were the distraction from his training and other businesses plus the lost productivity. The emotional costs were much higher. He had heard horror stories from friends about what to expect so he was very wary going into the deposition. Rob found that a number of people who had been talking with him before the subpoena suddenly stopped post-subpoena. Fortunately, he found the deposition "went far better than it could have with the lawyers" as they were professional, polite, and focused on the issues.

Rob wanted the following things highlighted.

1. The deposition established nothing was leaked to Rob, nothing was stolen, and that everything he as received was in the public domain.
2. He appeared voluntarily. As noted above, he was not properly served.
3. He had nothing to hide.
4. While subpoenaed by the attorneys for the NRA, he was critical of both sides in the case. 

Rob has told me that he will have video excerpts on the deposition available later today. I will post them as they become available.

I want to thank Rob again for taking the time out of his morning and out of his time with Baby Pincus to talk with me about the deposition.

NRA Issues Subpoenas To 3 Board Members In Ack-Mac Lawsuit (Updated)

I missed this story when it came out three days ago. It seems that attorneys for the NRA in their suit against Ackerman McQueen have issued subpoenas to three Board members. The subpoenas for documents were sent to Oliver North, Lance Olson, and Dan Boren.

From the Daily Beast which I acknowledge is a left-leaning anti-NRA publication:

Previously unreported court documents show the group served a subpoena on Oliver North late last month. It also subpoenaed Lance Olson and Daniel Boren, according to the documents; all three men are members of the NRA’s own board.

The subpoena asks for a number of documents from North: anything sent from April 10 to May 22 regarding people who work for the NRA’s longtime ad firm, Ackerman McQueen; any communications sent over the NRA’s contentious Indianapolis convention about CEO Wayne LaPierre or Ackerman McQueen; documents about the NRA’s expenditures; documents about North’s expenses; and communications about leaks.

The subpoena points to the friction between the NRA and its former president and highlights the extent to which the fight roiling the organization is focused on money and media. It specifically demands communications “related to a ‘leak’ or dissemination of previously non-public documents or information,” and cites stories from the Washington Free Beacon and The Daily Beast. The NRA previously alleged that the ad firm leaked confidential information to media outlets as part of an effort to damage senior officials in the NRA.

The NRA made the same document demands of Boren and Olson. It also demanded that North appear for a deposition on June 13 in a location the two parties would agree to, and that Olson do the same on June 17.

Lawyers for North did not immediately respond to a request for comment. A spokesperson for Ackerman McQueen declined to comment.

The story did not publish the court documents nor did it specify whether the subpoenas were in relation to the first lawsuit the NRA filed against Ack-Mac or the second. Without paying a significant fee, access to the City of Alexandria Circuit Court filings is limited to a dated notation listing the filing in a case.

I can see the NRA's attorneys issuing a subpoena to Oliver North as he is at the center of the lawsuits. I can even see the subpoena for Dan Boren who is from Oklahoma and reportedly opposed Wayne LaPierre at a reception during the NRA Annual Meeting. However, I don't understand the subpoena to Lance Olson nor why certain other members such as Lt. Col. Allen West or Richard Childress didn't receive subpoenas.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the next NRA Board meeting scheduled for September 13th in Anchorage, Alaska. Will there be a move to expel certain board members such as Lt. Col. North, Allen West, and others from the Board of Directors? An unnamed board member told me not to be surprised if this happens. North, by the way, was the leading vote getter in the 2019 BOD election surpassing even Ted Nugent.


UPDATE: The number of people getting subpoenas is now at least four. Rob Pincus acknowledged on Facebook that he had been served with one by the NRA's lawyers with reference to the Ack-Mac lawsuit. Stephen Gutowski of the Free Beacon tweeted about it a few hours ago. A copy of the subpoena with Rob's address information redacted can be found on Scribd.com here. He is being asked to produce letters, memos, and other communications concerning "previously non-public" information related to Wayne LaPierre, Oliver North, Marion Hammer, and Tyler Schropp. Mr. Schropp is in charge of the NRA's fund raising operations.

UPDATE II: Checking the case number on the subpoena served on Rob Pincus it comes from the second NRA lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen. This is the lawsuit which accuses Ack-Mac of instigating a "coup" against Wayne LaPierre. I presume the other three who have been subpoenaed are being subpoenaed as a result of this suit as well.

The big picture question in all of this is what role is being played by the NRA's outside counsel William Brewer III. Due to his ethics issues in Texas which are now before the Texas Supreme Court, he has not been granted leave to practice in Virginia.

UPDATE III: Checking the docket for this case, I see that there have been a total of six subpoenas issued. Two more were issued on June 4th. As to whom they were issued, I don't know yet. I will report on that when I find out. To read case documents for that case directly from the City of Alexandria Clerk of Circuit Court's website is $50 per month which I don't anticipate me deciding to pay anytime soon.

SHOT Show Day Three - Gunblast.com

The highlights of Jeff Quinn's third day at the SHOT Show include the Sig Sauer P320 X version, Rob Pincus' Avidity P10, and a unique barreled rifle from the Italian firm Sabatti. I will say I learned something about rifling as I had never heard of multi-radial rifling which sounds quite intriguing as it helps increase velocity and reduce bullet drop at longer ranges.

Training For The Zombie Apocalypse

Firearms training is serious stuff. You remember "we do dangerous things". However, just because it is serious doesn't mean it can't be fun and innovative.

In this video - released on Halloween - Rob Pincus shows a class how to counter a Zombie ambush. It could just as easily be a mob of crazed anarchists from Occupy (Insert City Name) on a rampage who have surrounded your stalled vehicle.

It looks like a fun - and challenging - exercise.





H/T Soldier Systems

New York TV Station Actually Airs Positive Segment On Firearms

A reporter for WPIX Channel 11 in New York City, Lisa Mateo, took a woman's only class with Rob Pincus of I.C.E. Training. The result was an actually positive look at women and firearms.